Ex-president Mas: "Turnout on 1 October must be higher than in 2014"

Barcelona"I fully support the president’s decisions, whatever they may be". With this strong message, the former president of Catalonia, Artur Mas, stressed his agreement with current president Carles Puigdemont as regards the 1 October independence referendum, but also in decisions, such as the sacking of former Business minister Jordi Baiget[1].

In an interview with ARA’s editor in chief, Esther Vera, which was streamed live on ara.cat, Mas admitted that he has great respect for the ex-minister, but defended Puigdemont’s right to decide who makes up his cabinet. In fact, Mas stated that, if he were president, at this point he would speak with all the members of the government to find out if they were ready to take the last steps before the referendum.

Asked whether, if he were president, he would support a government reshuffle before the referendum, he replied "not necessarily". "The only thing that I would do would be to speak with all the members of the government, to tell them that the referendum is just around the corner and that we’re facing an antidemocratic, intolerant Spanish state and that, as such, everyone has to evaluate whether, based on their personal situation, they can take these final steps". "The president absolutely needs to know everyone’s position", he said, although he noted he is aware that "the current cabinet is not only committed to holding the referendum, but also to building a country".

As for the Baiget affair, Mas argued that "[president] Puigdemont did what he had to do: take a personal decision and take responsibility for it". The former president emphasised that, ultimately, the relationship between a minister and the president is based on mutual confidence and, although he says he respects but doesn’t share Baiget’s doubts, he said that for him Baiget was a very valuable person, a very close, loyal, valuable and effective partner.

Mas, who appeared convinced that a vote will take place on 1 October and gave his opinion that the government is going in the right direction, admitted that Puigdemont didn’t consult him before firing Baiget, but emphasised that "he had no need to".

The ex-president, who is currently being pestered by Spain’s Court of Auditors over a new lawsuit following the unofficial 2014 vote, was sympathetic towards anybody who is worried that the independence process could end up having consequences for their loved ones and their finances [2]. "A threat on your finances is not only an issue for you, but for everyone with whom you share your life", he said before warning: "It matters, because this country has always lost itself in the debate between allegedly brave and cowardly theorists".

However, three months out from the referendum, he stressed that if he were currently president, he would now ask his ministers if they can take the last steps of the independence process.

The turnout will legitimise the referendum

Mas, who said that he’s trying "to not bother but help" and admitted that "from time to time" he is asked to help, seemed convinced that there will be a ballot in Catalonia on 1 October, even if it currently seems like there are doubts and difficulties. He noted that it was also necessary to overcome difficulties before the 2014 vote, but that people were able to vote in the end. However, he did admit that Spain is now "better prepared" and is doing all it can to block the vote.

Nevertheless, the ex-president said that "not everything depends on Spain", and he stressed the importance of a high turnout on 1 October to legitimise the vote. As such, he argued that, even though the Spanish government might put pressure on politicians, businesses, or public officials, it cannot do anything against citizens who go to vote and who have, he said, a great strength: "The strength to overcome a state that is acting in a completely antidemocratic, shameful, embarrassing manner".

Although he didn’t want to give a number for the minimum turnout that would give validity to the referendum, Mas did emphasise that it must be a "significant" participation, greater than that in November 2014 when around 38% of eligible voters cast a ballot. "This time around it must be greater than in 2014", he warned, despite stressing that the Council of Europe’s Venice Commission recommends not setting turnout limits to avoid encouraging a boycott.

If in the end there is such a turnout, Mas argued that the construction of the Catalan state has to involve some negotiation with Madrid and also with Brussels. "If a Catalan state is to be created, as I hope it will be, it shouldn’t be done through impositions, rather finding ways that no one comes out the loser", he said.

Mas also admitted that there is not currently a "decisive" majority in favour of independence. "We don’t have 60-65% of our nation in favour of independence, but we don’t know whether we have 52 or 54%. That’s what we’re trying to calculate".

Critical of Colau

The former president also mentiond the doubts held by the Catalunya en Comú party and, specifically, the role of the mayor of Barcelona, Ada Colau. Mas lamented that the Catalan government doesn’t yet know whether the Catalan capital’s council "will help or not, because one day they say one thing and the next completely another". "Barcelona lost a mayor who was committed to the referendum and ended up with one who harbours doubts".

Mas also criticised the image of three ex-presidents of Spain united against the referendum: "I’m sad to see Felipe González with [José María] Aznar, and even more to see [José Luis Rodríguez] Zapatero with Felipe and Aznar", he said. He later added: "I still remember when the PSOE party under Felipe defended the right to self-determination. Now they’re on the side of Aznar, the side of those that come from Franco’s Movimiento Nacional[3]".

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Translator’s notes:

[1] Former Catalan Minister for Business Jordi Baiget was sacked recently following a newspaper interview in which he expressed doubts as to whether an independence vote would actually be held.

[2] Former president Artur Mas and the cabinet ministers who were involved in setting up the non-binding vote on November 9, 2014 are now facing huge fines as a result of further legal action by Spain’s Court of Auditors

[3] During the Franco dictatorship, the Movimiento Nacional (National Movement) was the vehicle encompassing politics, trade unions and the civil service that was the only legal way to participate in public life in Spain.